Podcast: Laughter Is Good Medicine

Full Transcript:
Released 11/22/2023

This episode was originally released on June 27, 2023.

PODCAST OPEN:            
You’re listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, created by the Arthritis Foundation to help people with arthritis — and the people who love them — live their best lives. If you’re dealing with chronic pain, this podcast is for you. You may have arthritis, but it doesn’t have you. Here, learn how you can take control of arthritis with tips and ideas from our hosts and guest experts. 

This is an encore epsidoe of the podcast. Originally released on June 27, 2023. 
        
MUSIC BRIDGE 

Pete Scalia: 
Hello, and welcome to the Live Yes With Arthritis podcast. I am your guest host, Pete Scalia, and we have a great topic on hand: Laughter is the best medicine. I’m sure you’ve heard that expression many times before. The truth is, there’s actually some real scientific proof to that old adage. Research shows that laughter cannot only lighten our mood but distract us from pain, and it has a whole slew of other health benefits as well. 

So, in this episode of the Live Yes With Arthritis podcast, we're going to explore how tickling our funny bones can improve our mental and our physical health. As well as some tips to employ laughter, and how it can ultimately help you live your best life with arthritis. And we have the perfect guest for the podcast today: Matt Iseman, the host of “American Ninja Warrior” and longtime supporter of the Arthritis Foundation. Matt, we really appreciate you joining us today. 

Matt Iseman: 
Pete, it's always a pleasure to be here. Arthritis brought us together, too, you and me. 

Pete Scalia: 
It did, for sure. We actually met through the Arthritis Foundation. And when I was asked to be guest host of this episode, I was really excited about it, in particular for the fact that the topic itself: Laughter is the best medicine. You're literally a doctor who became a standup comedian who lives with RA. I couldn't think of a better guest to have for this episode. 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah, you know, my whole life has been leading right to this, Pete. (laughter) I always said that I thought laughter was the best medicine. And I think it is really the underlying theme of so much in my life; was how laughter has given me my career. It's given me, I think, the best tool I've had to deal with rheumatoid arthritis. 

The thing that kept me going, as my body was falling apart, was that I was doing comedy, that I was going out to clubs. I was making people laugh. I was around laughter. And I don't think — until I was diagnosed and then started on treatment and started to come out of it — that I realized I was depressed. I was depressed during that time. But I know the tool that saw me through it was the laughter. 

Pete Scalia: 
When would you find those moments that, you know, you felt that laughter really helped you? 

Matt Iseman: 
One of the greatest joys is making other people laugh. I think people go into standup for one of two reasons, Pete: They weren't hugged enough as a child; or they were hugged too much. I was in the latter. (laughter) 

And my mom just always was telling me how funny I was, just filling me with praise. She was my best audience member. And I say, when I'm out on stage and I feel that audience laughter, that's my mother's hugs. And it is such a euphoric feeling because I know when I laugh how good it feels. To make other people laugh is such a rewarding sensation for me. 

And it's such a gift, I think a tool that I've really seen embraced in the hospital, too. Where with these sick patients, people are realizing, they're lying in bed all day dealing with disease. If they can put something on, put on an episode of “Seinfeld,” how clinically better they'll feel. I always felt that when the emotions are building up, they're going to come out. And so, it's a question, if you let them out, you know, through crying or frustration or anger or laughter. And I always felt laughter was such a cathartic release for me in times of stress or challenge. 

Pete Scalia: 
We actually had results of a study that was done, and I thought this was fascinating, there were a few highlights here of some of the short-term effects that laughter can have on your overall health. And one of the things is that it can soothe tension. So, if you're feeling tense — I’m  sure you've experienced that, and probably also as a performer too, right? 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah. It's such a release of the energy throughout your body. The interesting thing for me was, having been on both sides of the stethoscope, I realized that for doctors and caregivers, it's very often a solemn relationship that you have: caregiver and patient. And what I noticed and what I experienced, and I really saw, was: The caregivers feel that by laughing or using laughter, it's not taking it seriously. They worry...I think people are concerned…like, "Well, if I'm making jokes or something, the patient's going to think I'm not taking it seriously." 

And to me, and I do talks for doctors’ groups, nurses’ groups, people dealing with chronic illness — and I always say, "Just the same way that anti-inflammatories or steroids or biologics are a part of your toolbox to treat chronic disease, laughter should really be a part of it." 

Instead of thinking of them as a patient, think of them as a human, someone who is more of a friend. I would, in very difficult times, try to make a patient laugh. And never in a disrespectful way or something that is lessening what they're going through, but in a way that just says, "I know you're in an emotionally challenging place. And if I can get you to laugh, I believe it's going to be a tremendous release for you." 

Pete Scalia: 
Right, yeah. I thought this was an interesting point, too, and I'm just reading this verbatim, Matt: that laughter can stimulate many organs. 

Matt Iseman
Hello! (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
It says it enhances your intake of oxygen-rich air. It can stimulate your heart, your lungs, your muscles. That sense of euphoria. 

Matt Iseman: 
When you're in a hospital bed, particularly if you're in pain, you're not taking deep breaths. And to have that laughter to open up the lungs, the alveoli, to really get them oxygenated and flowing. If it's stimulating organs, who doesn't want that? (laughter) 

Pete Scalia:  
That definitely sounds good. So, Matt, I have to ask: With your career, it can be very demanding. I mean, we know that working in television and these things, you're always on the go. How has that affected your RA? 

Matt Iseman: 
The number one thing for me, honestly, even when I'm not traveling, is hydration. And I get into so much trouble when I'm not regularly pounding water, or I'm choosing coffee instead of water. And I know for me, particularly for my joints, particularly for some of the inflammation in my back, that when I'm dehydrated, everything feels amplified. 

And so, I always try to make it a point where shooting “Ninja Warrior,” where we shoot all night, when I'm hydrated, my energy stays up and I feel better, rather than kind of, you know, using caffeine as kind of the “break glass in case of emergency.” That is something I think that I've noticed, particularly for people with this kind of chronic pain and stiffness: that hydration is such a good lubricant for everything, for all the muscles. 

Pete Scalia: 
Oh, that's a really great tip. I know that I've often used caffeine as a crutch, too. Taking another look at this study, they were talking about the release of the beta endorphins. That actually affects our adrenal glands. Like, we actually have physiological effects from laughter that can really help with anti-inflammatory properties. I mean, does that surprise you? 

Matt Iseman: 
Not at all. You feel better after laughing. It’s something where you do feel this euphoria. That’s really what I experience when I’m on-stage hearing laughter, feeling that positive energy. Because when people are laughing, they’re not focused on negativity. 

Everything is competing for focus in our lives now, particularly with the phone: social media, notifications, emails, text messages, phone calls. You can constantly be distracted and very easily led down a road of, you know, looking at something that leads you into kind of a more negative mindset. 

If I’m having a flare-up, I know I can really start pitying myself, feeling sorry for myself. Or focusing on what I can’t do instead of saying, “Alright, well what can I do? And what’s going to put me in a better head space?” 

Pete Scalia: 
Apparently, it was medically proven that just 15 minutes of laughter can actually give patients an extra two hours of pain-free sleep. 

Matt Iseman: 
Wow. 

Pete Scalia:  
That those endorphins sort of stay in your system long enough to do that. So, I’m kind of doing the math here: 15 minutes of laughter, how long is your set typically when you do standup? (laughs) 

Matt Iseman: 
Well, I’m doing… This’ll be a 45-minute set, so I can give people six hours of pain-free sleep this Friday night in Pasadena. Everyone should have a prescription from their doctor: “Laugh. Laugh for an hour a day, and then you’re going to sleep like a baby.” 

Pete Scalia: 
And then now we know scientifically that it will have lasting effects, which is good. 

Matt Iseman: 
One of the things I noticed, too, is: You know, we all have a friend, usually a best friend or someone who just knows how to make you laugh, where, even if they’re not trying, just their outlook, something. And I always say, if you have a friend who can make you laugh, keep them on the first position in speed dial, and lean on them. And it’s not even that you’ve got to call up: “Hey, I’m in a low mood, make me laugh.” It’s just, “Hey, what’s up?” Those friends are worth their weight in gold if you have one. And if you do, hold onto them and lean into it. 

And let me also say this: I come off as a very positive person. There are times when I’m down. There are times when nothing is funny. There are times when I struggle and times where it’s just, no matter what I do, nothing will turn it around. I lost my dad at the end of last year, and I’ve been depressed, I’ve really been sad. We all have low moments. And that’s OK. You’ll get past it, you will. 

Pete Scalia: 
And that’s when, like you said, you pick up the phone and you have those people that you’ve encountered in life, right, that you know you can count on. 

Matt Iseman: 
100%. 

PROMO: 
Whenever you need help, the Arthritis Foundation’s Helpline is here for you. Whether it’s about insurance coverage, a provider you need help from or something else, get in touch with us by phone toll-free at 800-283-7800. Or send us a message at https://www.arthritis.org/helpline. 

Pete Scalia: 
You mentioned your dad. He was a physician as well. So, I have to ask you: What was the conversation like with your parents when you said, “Hey, I’m going to go into comedy”? 

Matt Iseman: 
My dad, as you mentioned, was a doctor, and he was a professor at the University of Colorado, which is where I was doing my internship in intro to medicine. After I got my MD, I came back to the University of Colorado. So, Dad and I were working at the same hospital together. In fact, Christmas Day of 1998, I was in the hospital on Christmas morning, and my dad was my attending physician. We were rounding on patients together on Christmas. And he just said, “This is the best Christmas gift I ever got.” 

A month later, I sit him down and tell him, “Dad, my heart’s not in medicine. I don’t feel like I’m doing a service to my patients or to myself. I want to step away from medicine and try standup comedy.” And my dad didn’t miss a beat. First thing he said was, “Life is short, do what makes you happy.” I know behind my back he must have said a lot of different stuff. (laughter) 

But it was unbelievable how, in having that support from him, that was the moment where I felt like the weight was lifted. “My parents are behind me. My parents are supporting me in this thing.” Because I know how crazy it is, right, to walk away from a stable career to go do something that is completely fickle and silly and self-centered.  

And so, it gave me this incredible motivation out there, that support of my parents. And I’m so happy and 100% convinced I absolutely made the right choice. 

Pete Scalia: 
That’s very cool. I know a lot of people that we’ve met, too, over the years through the Arthritis Foundation… and it’s really been a great resource for a lot of people. I know I’ve seen that firsthand, and I know you have, too. 

Matt Iseman: 
I immediately wanted to get involved in the Arthritis Foundation back in 2002 when I was diagnosed. I’m a doctor. It wasn’t that I needed knowledge. I understood the disease. What I needed was to talk to someone who’d lived with it, someone who’d experienced it. Because a doctor can tell you something, but they don’t know what that pain is like; they don’t know what the course of the disease can be. And the Arthritis Foundation was so beautiful. 

I remember, I went to a meeting, and all of a sudden, I’m in a room with people living exactly with the same challenges that I was experiencing. And for me, when you’re diagnosed, you start reading the textbook. And all you see are the worst-case scenarios: You see these things of people in wheelchairs, you see these people whose lives are taken away. It gives you the sense that that is the only course that’s coming my way. 

Instead of going and seeing people who are living with these challenges and finding ways to still live Yes and live a full life. Where it’s, “Hey, I live with rheumatoid arthritis. It doesn’t have me, it’s just a part of me.” 

Pete Scalia: 
You meet some of these people, and no matter what it is you feel like you’re going through, it’s also sort of, as part of that community, realizing, “Hey, I’m actually maybe in a better place than I thought I was, now that I’ve been able to relate to someone else in a different situation.” 

Matt Iseman: 
Yes.  

Pete Scalia: 
Or maybe someone else has been able to achieve a certain level of comfort with it. Or found some remedies that maybe you hadn’t heard of before. So, it’s a great way to kind of network that way, too, don’t you think? 

Matt Iseman: 
One of the things I really loved was meeting the children dealing with the disease. I was in my early 30s when I was diagnosed, and I know how hard it was to cope with it. And I couldn’t imagine if you’re a kid who just wants to run around and be normal like your friends, and all of a sudden, you’re different. And what I loved was going out to the camps where, you know, you have kids playing softball. And instead of them being embarrassed, or saying, “I’m not going to be as good as the other kids,” it’s “Hey, here the victory is being on this field. Let’s go out.” The whole point of this is to have fun, and for them to feel comfortable saying, “Hey, these kids understand that today I’m not going to be able to run, my knees are inflamed.” 

It’s the beautiful thing about that Arthritis Foundation community: that you find the people who understand what you’re going through, who really are living it. And the tips and tricks are amazing. But just that kindred spirit, that camaraderie that you share with someone having gone through it. I think that’s the most beautiful part of the Arthritis Foundation for me. 

Pete Scalia: 
Now, of course, that begs the question: When you’re interacting with the kids, Matt, did they find you as funny as the adults do? Because I know they can be more challenging. 

Matt Iseman: 
The kids will always laugh. And I can never tell, Pete, if they’re laughing with me or at me. But in my mind, I’m like, “If they’re laughing, I’m doing something right.” (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
Well, I can tell you, I know I have an 8-year-old daughter who is inspired by you. And what’s really interesting is she made the comment that she knows that maybe Daddy might not be able to compete on “American Ninja Warrior.” She’s like, “But maybe I can for my Daddy,” which was kind of cool. 

Matt Iseman: 
And it’s beautiful, and that’s one of the great things about “Ninja Warrior,” that we have people dealing with everything. One of our top athletes, Abel Gonzalez, has rheumatoid arthritis. Another one, David Campbell, was diagnosed with it just a couple seasons ago. He’s competed in every season. 

And I see the importance of representation, that you have people on there who are dealing with RA, that you have people who are dealing with cancer, who come back from stage four cancer. One of the great things about “American Ninja Warrior” is it’s not about being the best. What the audience responds to is people being their best. 

What the audience really loves about “American Ninja Warrior”… I think the secret sauce: People love watching them overcome obstacles on the course, but the reason that they love the show, the reason that they feel emotionally connected, is the obstacles people overcame off the course to get there. 

Pete Scalia: 
That’s just incredible, Matt. Now, I do have to ask about another appearance of yours and another friendship of yours — with the Governator… 

Matt Iseman: 
Aye. 

Pete Scalia: 
...with Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

Matt Iseman: 
Yes. 

Pete Scalia: 
My family watched with tears in our eyes… We were so happy when you won that season of “The New Celebrity Apprentice” on behalf of the Arthritis Foundation. 

Matt Iseman: 
I’ve been in Hollywood now closing in on 24 years. And if you said, choose one highlight, it absolutely was going on “Celebrity Apprentice.” And I remember going onto that show just thinking, “Try not to be the first person fired.” Carnie Wilson’s on there, Vince Neil of Mötley Crüe, Boy George, all these people who were super talented in areas. And I said, “But the one thing I know — the thing I got from medicine, the thing I got from dealing with rheumatoid arthritis — is I can push through. I can work my ass off.” And I did. And I figured that out pretty early on, and it just kind of kept building. 

And as I got deeper into the show, I realized, “Oh my God, I think I’ve got a chance at this.” And then come down to the finale. And I remember a big part of the finale was fundraising. In the final episode, it was me versus Boy George. Boy George has been famous since the ’80s, he runs in heavy circles, and I thought, “There’s no way I’m going to be able to out-fundraise him.” 

But I started talking to the people at the Arthritis Foundation. I said, “In three days, I need to raise as much money as possible.” And the Arthritis Foundation did something beautiful: They said, “We’re going to contact every person we have on our donation list and say, ‘If you plan to give money at all, please give it right now, because we have the opportunity to double it.’” 

And sure enough, the most surprising part of the whole season was that, in the end, I out-raised Boy George by over $100,000. I should say WE out-raised it, because it was unbelievable how people showed up. And then, when I won, I ended up on the season earning $978,000 for the Arthritis Foundation. I get the biggest smile on my face just thinking of how we, the whole arthritis community, came together to pull it off. 

I got into medicine because I wanted to help people. I wanted to make them feel better. And I knew, when I stepped away, I thought, you know, “I’m pursuing something much more selfish, much more self-centered, something that I’m going to love to do.” And I think it’s amazing, that between “American Ninja Warrior” and “The New Celebrity Apprentice,” and the stuff I get to do with charities… I think I’m touching a lot more lives than I could have as a doctor. 

Obviously, being a doctor is an incredible privilege. But for what I’m doing, to still feel like I can help make people feel better, that I can make a difference… It’s amazing how we can find ways we never imagined to get to that same goal. 

A kid on “Ninja Warrior,” he said, “When you stop focusing on what you can’t do, and you focus on what you can do, you’ll be amazed at what you can accomplish.” It goes back again to that focus on the positivity: Focus on the goal. Instead of the doors that have been closed, find the windows that are open. The more times you do it, the more times you surprise yourself, the more you’ll be confident that you can keep doing it. 

Pete Scalia: 
That’s awesome, Matt. 

PROMO: 
The Arthritis Foundation is always looking for new ways to inform you about the things you want to know more about. Check out our webinars — in real time or on demand. Visit https://www.arthritis.org/events/webinars to learn more. 

Pete Scalia: 
What would you tell somebody who was just diagnosed with arthritis? 

Matt Iseman: 
Stop being a Google doctor and looking it up. And start talking to people who are living with the same challenge. Like really avail yourself of the opportunity to talk with people who’ve been where you’ve been, who know what you’re feeling. You could be surrounded by people who love you, who are supporting you. But you feel so alone until you talk to someone who’s walked in the same footsteps as you’re going through.  

Because it’s so easy to just kind of, you know, internet search yourself into a wormhole and get to a dark place. So, take advantage of the family of the Arthritis Foundation. 

Pete Scalia:  
And speaking of the Arthritis Foundation, we have to give a shout-out: The Foundation is celebrating its 75th year this year… 

Matt Iseman: 
Wow. 

Pete Scalia: 
... which is pretty incredible. So much has changed, too, in 75 years. I know my grandmother had a sister who was diagnosed with RA back in the 1940s. And it was like, “Oh, well, it hurts when I move.” “Well, OK, then don’t move.” 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah. 

Pete Scalia: 
And then your joints would fuse. Or “Hey, we have this fantastic new breakthrough: It’s called aspirin. Try this.” I mean, we’ve developed so many new treatments. We’ve advocated for better health care policies and laws. And connecting with the patients and their families. Still obviously, a lot more work to do. But it’s exciting to see how much has been accomplished in these 75 years. 

Matt Iseman: 
The Arthritis Foundation funding research, pushing for research, developing these drugs. We’re very fortunate, and it’s important to support. You know, I’m on a biologic that really stopped the disease in its tracks. And to think about: What would my life be if people hadn’t funded that, pushed for the research and developed it? 

And I think to realize, wow, what a chance to pay it forward. We may not find just a magical silver bullet. But slowly and surely, we’ll start to chip away and find these new advances. There are so many breakthroughs on the near horizon. It’s going to be exciting to see what can happen.  

It’s planting a seed… planting a tree under the shade of which we may never sit. But it’s that idea of — for that next generation, or the ones that haven’t even been a twinkle in a grandparent’s eye yet — that the idea of, wow, what a great legacy we can all have. Supporting the Arthritis Foundation is hopefully, someday, making arthritis a thing of the past, that would be just amazing. 

Pete Scalia: 
Well, I love it Matt. I can tell you personally, you've been an inspiration to me, being such a great ambassador for the Arthritis Foundation. For all of us, as you said, the millions of us who are living with some form of arthritis. What does it mean to you to be able to give back in the ways that you have? 

Matt Iseman: 
Being able to live out openly with this disease and to share to people: "Look, I'm dealing with the same things you are, and somehow, you know, I've made this unbelievable career work." And to just let people know that you're not alone. You can still go out and have the career of your dreams and get to do some amazingly fun things. 

Pete Scalia: 
How do you come up with your material? 

Matt Iseman: 
The thing I love about comedy is you're trying to get 300 people in a room from different ages, different backgrounds, different phases in life, dealing with different things: You're trying to get all of them at the same time to have that same realization of what the joke is. And when you do it, when you've been struggling, and all of a sudden you find the way to say it where, like, they get it: I'm now conveying this. It is this beautiful connection you get. And I think that's one of the things that I love about comedy. It's about connecting with 300 people at the same time. And when you do it, to me it's so satisfying. 

And to me, that's what's so fun is: I know I'm just bringing joy, I'm giving these people the release, getting them to laugh. It is such a euphoric feeling. I can't wait to get back on stage now! 

Pete Scalia: 
Oh, I love that. You talk about the highs, like when the room is in the palm of your hand. And then when you just totally bomb. And it kind of creates who you are on stage, doesn't it? 

Matt Iseman: 
Oh, when you're a comic, you don't tell stories of, "Man, I crushed this room and it was amazing..." You tell the stories of, "I went in there, there were six nuns in the front row, they were booing me, it was awful. I think they cursed me to the netherworld." Those are the ones that we all enjoy telling because we've all been there. And it's one of those things that, when you start out and you try to make people laugh and you fail, it is a pit sitting in your stomach. It is a horrible taste. And until you get on stage and make people laugh, you can't get it out of your mouth. And then, all of a sudden, you break through. 

That was a tough lesson to learn in comedy. But it's a lesson in life of: You're not going to succeed every time. But it's not a failure; it's a learning experience. Alright, that didn't work, what can I try next time? And I think that's been a great life lesson for me, was kind of dealing with that pain of failure or rejection or whatever you call it. And realizing, "No, no, no. This is just another step in the process to making it great." 

PROMO: 
The Arthritis Foundation couldn’t do awesome things without your support. Your donation fuels our powerful movement to advance arthritis research and resources, like this podcast and much more. Every dollar makes a difference. Give a gift now at arthritis.org/donate. 

Pete Scalia: 
We've been talking about laughter is medicine with Matt Iseman. And Matt, we posed the question on social media, leading up to this episode, and we asked: How does laughter help you cope with your arthritis? One person said, "My pain is a fact, and focusing on laughter and fun things takes more effort, so I'm making a conscious effort to choose joy as part of my healing journey." 

Matt Iseman: 
Amen. Nobody cares about your health as much as you do. You need to be your own best advocate. You need to be the person who, instead of waiting for something to happen, says, “I’m choosing to focus on joy.” And I think it’s that conscious choice. And I think the more you do it, the more you realize you can develop that into a habit. 

Pete Scalia: 
And sometimes that can be difficult, too. Letting that switch sort of go off, saying, “I’m going to make this conscious effort to do that." And so, in this case, I mean, it’s literally making a conscious effort to allow yourself to be happy and to laugh. 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah. And I think every time you do that, you build on your successes. And it becomes a little easier the next time. 

Pete Scalia: 
If there was something that you wanted someone who's listening to this podcast right now to sort of walk away with, what would that be? 

Matt Iseman: 
Well, laughter is the best medicine. When I say it's the best medicine, obviously the biologics have given me my life back. But I think that laughter is this thing that is free, it's universal. Every person on earth loves to laugh. And I think that when you can view this not as something silly or goofy or a distraction, but to say, "Wow, if I'm struggling, trying to find laughter is as good as getting a massage or stretching or treating your body right." And when you're in your dark times, and you're feeling like nothing is funny, lean on the community of the Arthritis Foundation. Because we can all relate to that. 

When you’re dealing with the most horrendous, challenging situations in life, you can either cry, be daunted by it, or sometimes you can laugh. This should be a priority. Do everything you can with traditional medicine, with your alternative medicine. But lean on this laughter, because it is such a simple and powerful tool. 

The other message is, especially if you're newly diagnosed, you're not alone. We're out here. I remember when I was newly diagnosed and everything felt terrifying. And to have people go: “It's all right, man. You get through it. You learn to live, you learn to have your full life.” 

Pete Scalia: 
Well, I love it, Matt. And it was exciting for me catching up with my fellow RA warrior. 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah, buddy. (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
I know that laughter is the best medicine. I certainly feel better already. 

Matt Iseman: 
Yeah, absolutely. Even when it's on those days when you can't, don't give up. You’ll get back there. 

Pete Scalia: 
Well, I know that's one thing I firmly believe in, is just never giving up. And you certainly personify that, Matt, so we appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. 

Matt Iseman: 
My pleasure. 

PODCAST CLOSE:      
The Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast is independently produced by the Arthritis Foundation. This podcast aims to help people living with arthritis and chronic pain live their best life. People like you. For a transcript and show notes, go to https://www.arthritis.org/liveyes/podcast. Subscribe and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. And stay in touch!